[ANSS-netops] Fwd: Re: [Managers] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)

Bridget O'Neill brit at passcal.nmt.edu
Fri Jul 15 17:22:49 UTC 2011


Hello -

     Kent Anderson suggested I forward this thread to this forum.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Managers] Fwd: Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek 
"Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)
Date: 	Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:17:39 -0600
From: 	Bridget O'Neill <brit at passcal.nmt.edu>
To: 	Bruce Beaudoin <bruce at passcal.nmt.edu>
CC: 	Robert Busby <busby at iris.edu>, Kent Anderson <kent at iris.edu>, 
croker at usgs.gov, James Gridley <James.Gridley at iris.edu>, 
managers at passcal.nmt.edu, woodward at iris.edu, dietz at usgs.gov



One other thing I should have added -

     In the SOH log messages, if the initial EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED 
message is missing all the time and you are NOT using a 16x GPS with 3.7 
firmware - that is an indication that the DAS power to the clock is 
stuck ON.  I believe it is U2 on the RT130 Lid board that needs to be 
replaced to fix that.  We have a check for this issue in our routine 
bench testing of RT130's when they return from the field.  For some idea 
of the frequency of this issue - we've made about 15 of these repairs so 
far this year.

     - Brit

On 7/15/11 11:00 AM, Bridget O'Neill wrote:
> Hi, Everyone -
>
>     I just brought this up at last weeks PASSCAL manager coordination 
> meeting.  There was a problem with the 16x receivers that we noted in 
> January after updating the firmware on the few that we had at that 
> time.  The DAS logs had numerous possible 1 second discrepancies, i.e:
>
>      INTERNAL CLOCK POSSIBLE DISCREPANCY OF -1 SECONDS
>
>  We did not let any of our 16x, or 15x go to the field with this 
> firmware.  (We are using 15x receivers from Garmin to repair our older 
> style Reftek GPS, but they did have this same issue.)
>     We contacted Reftek.  Initially they didn't see the problem in 
> 16x's that they had on hand.  We sent them several of our GPSs and 
> DASs and then they did confirm the problem.  I think they then 
> confirmed the problem in new 16x's they had, presumably after putting 
> the _then_ latest Garmin firmware on them.  They contacted Garmin, and 
> Garmin has recently released new firmware, version 3.7, with this 
> issue fixed.  We have not seen any further occurrence of this problem 
> in our testing at PASSCAL.
>     It is also my understanding, from Reftek, from their conversations 
> with Garmin, that this bug was introduced after the 2.7 firmware.  If 
> your 16x has the 2.7 firmware it is supposedly ok.  Reftek said that 
> they were shipping 16x's with 2.7 firmware between the discovery of 
> the issue and Garmin's release of the 3.7 firmware.
>     If you look on the back of your hockey puck style GPS, you can see 
> whether it is a 16-HVS or a 16x-HVS.  We have not seen any problems 
> with the non-x 16-HVS.
>     There is something else to be aware of with the 3.7 firmware 
> though.  The clock locks very fast.  Normally, the log messages you 
> would have seen from the DAS during the clock On cycle were:
>
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED ON
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK WAKEUP
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK IS LOCKED
>     (approximately 20 minutes of phase error messages)
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
>     EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED OFF
>
> The time between the power turn on and the DAS first polling the clock 
> for its status, and getting the first unlocked message, is about 5 
> seconds.  Now the clock usually (but not 100% of the time) locks 
> within that five seconds, so you don't get the first unlocked message. 
> This produces a pattern in the logpeek trace of the clock lock/unlock 
> cycle that is different from what people are used to seeing.  However, 
> I have confirmed with Reftek that there is no problem there.  If the 
> clock is shielded somewhat, so that it takes longer to lock, then you 
> will get the old familiar pattern of messages and sawtooth (rather 
> than zigzag) trace in logpeek.
>
>     I hope this helps.  Please feel free to contact me if there are 
> questions, or we can be of any assistance.
>
>     - Brit
>
> -- 
> Brit O'Neill
>
> Hardware Maintenance
> PASSCAL Instrument Center
> 100 East Rd.
> Socorro, NM 87801
>
> Tel: 575-835-5080
> Fax: 575-835-5079
>
>
> On 7/15/11 9:18 AM, Bruce Beaudoin wrote:
>> I'm just sending this to managers at this point. Please review and if 
>> this is indeed a problem for us (and I'm suspecting that it is) then 
>> can Brit or MikeF be prepared to discuss at Monday morning meeting.
>>
>> Thanks, Bruce
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: 	Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin 
>> GPS receiver (details from Reftek)
>> Date: 	Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:04:11 -0600
>> From: 	Kent Anderson <kent at iris.edu>
>> To: 	James Gridley <James.Gridley at iris.edu>, Bruce Beaudoin 
>> <bruce at passcal.nmt.edu>
>> CC: 	Bob Woodward <woodward at iris.edu>, Robert Busby <busby at iris.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> Not sure if you were aware of this, but looks like there is a problem 
>> with the Garmin GPS (model 16x).  I believe these are the units we 
>> bought to overcome the problems with the previous SiRF problems in 08.
>>
>> Just wanted to make sure you were in the loop on this.  I'm sure you 
>> guys are all over this already.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> *From: *"David S. Croker" <croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>>
>>> *Date: *July 14, 2011 3:52:33 PM MDT
>>> *To: *anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov 
>>> <mailto:anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
>>> *Subject: **[ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin GPS 
>>> receiver (details from Reftek)*
>>>
>>> All, below is an exchange we had after trying to work out a timing 
>>> error with a couple of Jim Cullen's sites.  Sorry for the bad news....
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>> Below are the details about a Reftek timing bug, as related by Ian 
>>>> Billings at Reftek.
>>>>
>>>> Refteks running with Model 16X GPS may or may not have a 1 second 
>>>> timing error. Once they DO have the timing error, it will remain 1 
>>>> second wrong until the GPS firmware is updated.  So even if we 
>>>> figure out which stations have the bad GPS module, we might not 
>>>> know if/when the timestamp went bad...
>>>>
>>>> The only way to tell if you have a Model 16X is to look at the 
>>>> hockey puck.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: bug in "Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)? [USGS]
>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:49:25 -0500
>>>>> From: "Ian Billings" <I.Billings at reftek.com 
>>>>> <mailto:I.Billings at reftek.com>>
>>>>> To: "Lynn Dietz" <dietz at usgs.gov <mailto:dietz at usgs.gov>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Lynn,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes there is a problem with Garmin modules 16X, their Garmin 
>>>>> firmware between 2.50 & 3.70.  Garmin have recently fixed this and 
>>>>> we have tested it and ok'd it.  The fixed version is 3.70.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortuantely REF TEK did not track 130-GPS serial number to 
>>>>> Garmin model number, therefore one will need to look at the bottom 
>>>>> of the unit to know if it is a 16X.  This was a major error on REF 
>>>>> TEK's part as there is no way now for support to contact users 
>>>>> that maybe effected.
>>>>>
>>>>> The error is an exact 1sec difference.  Once a clock gets into the 
>>>>> state of being in error it will not come out of it until the 
>>>>> firmware is replaced.  However it can take units months to get to 
>>>>> this point which makes it difficult to determine if current units 
>>>>> installed are in error yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 3.70 firmware is available on the Garmin web site.  I have 
>>>>> also attached a diagram of the cable we use to upgrade the units.  
>>>>> You will see that a serial port is needed.  I will be in your area 
>>>>> on the 28th of this month so we could discuss this more then and I 
>>>>> could also upgrade any units you have on hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know if you have ant additional questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian Billings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Lynn Dietz [ mailto:dietz at usgs.gov ]
>>>>> *Sent:* Thu 7/14/2011 1:58 PM
>>>>> *To:* Ian Billings
>>>>> *Cc:* oppen at usgs.gov <mailto:oppen at usgs.gov>; dietz at usgs.gov 
>>>>> <mailto:dietz at usgs.gov>; croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>
>>>>> *Subject:* bug in "Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Cullen of PG&E just told me that Reftek has confirmed that
>>>>> there's a bug in the "Model 16X" GPS unit (black hockey puck from
>>>>> Garmin). Can you give me any details about the timing errors that
>>>>> result from this bug?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have observed a timing difference of approximately 1 sec between
>>>>> co-located Reftek130 and analog data from the PG&E network, but Jim
>>>>> says he's observed differences of 0.8 sec. So it appears that the
>>>>> timing error is not exactly a whole second.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if NCSN is using any "Model 16X" GPS units, but I know
>>>>> we have some black hockey pucks out there. Is there a way to tell
>>>>> from SOH logs if a Reftek130 is using a buggy Garmin?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Lynn Dietz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>> USGS - Earthquake Science Center - NCSN Field Operations Manager
>>> David S. Croker                                         office (650) 
>>> 329-4697
>>> 345 Middlefield Rd, MS 977                           fax (650) 329-4732
>>> Menlo Park, CA 94025                                 cell (650) 465-4334
>>> email: croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>
>>> Quake info: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/
>>> USGS URL: http://www.usgs.gov/
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Managers mailing list
>> Managers at passcal.nmt.edu
>> https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers
>>    
>
> -- 
> Brit O'Neill
>
> PASSCAL Instrument Center
> 100 East Rd.
> Socorro, NM 87801
>
> Tel: 575-835-5080
> Fax: 575-835-5079
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Managers mailing list
> Managers at passcal.nmt.edu
> https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers
>    

-- 
Brit O'Neill

PASSCAL Instrument Center
100 East Rd.
Socorro, NM 87801

Tel: 575-835-5080
Fax: 575-835-5079

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