[ANSS-netops] Fwd: Re: [Managers] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)
Bridget O'Neill
brit at passcal.nmt.edu
Fri Jul 15 17:22:49 UTC 2011
Hello -
Kent Anderson suggested I forward this thread to this forum.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Managers] Fwd: Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek
"Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:17:39 -0600
From: Bridget O'Neill <brit at passcal.nmt.edu>
To: Bruce Beaudoin <bruce at passcal.nmt.edu>
CC: Robert Busby <busby at iris.edu>, Kent Anderson <kent at iris.edu>,
croker at usgs.gov, James Gridley <James.Gridley at iris.edu>,
managers at passcal.nmt.edu, woodward at iris.edu, dietz at usgs.gov
One other thing I should have added -
In the SOH log messages, if the initial EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
message is missing all the time and you are NOT using a 16x GPS with 3.7
firmware - that is an indication that the DAS power to the clock is
stuck ON. I believe it is U2 on the RT130 Lid board that needs to be
replaced to fix that. We have a check for this issue in our routine
bench testing of RT130's when they return from the field. For some idea
of the frequency of this issue - we've made about 15 of these repairs so
far this year.
- Brit
On 7/15/11 11:00 AM, Bridget O'Neill wrote:
> Hi, Everyone -
>
> I just brought this up at last weeks PASSCAL manager coordination
> meeting. There was a problem with the 16x receivers that we noted in
> January after updating the firmware on the few that we had at that
> time. The DAS logs had numerous possible 1 second discrepancies, i.e:
>
> INTERNAL CLOCK POSSIBLE DISCREPANCY OF -1 SECONDS
>
> We did not let any of our 16x, or 15x go to the field with this
> firmware. (We are using 15x receivers from Garmin to repair our older
> style Reftek GPS, but they did have this same issue.)
> We contacted Reftek. Initially they didn't see the problem in
> 16x's that they had on hand. We sent them several of our GPSs and
> DASs and then they did confirm the problem. I think they then
> confirmed the problem in new 16x's they had, presumably after putting
> the _then_ latest Garmin firmware on them. They contacted Garmin, and
> Garmin has recently released new firmware, version 3.7, with this
> issue fixed. We have not seen any further occurrence of this problem
> in our testing at PASSCAL.
> It is also my understanding, from Reftek, from their conversations
> with Garmin, that this bug was introduced after the 2.7 firmware. If
> your 16x has the 2.7 firmware it is supposedly ok. Reftek said that
> they were shipping 16x's with 2.7 firmware between the discovery of
> the issue and Garmin's release of the 3.7 firmware.
> If you look on the back of your hockey puck style GPS, you can see
> whether it is a 16-HVS or a 16x-HVS. We have not seen any problems
> with the non-x 16-HVS.
> There is something else to be aware of with the 3.7 firmware
> though. The clock locks very fast. Normally, the log messages you
> would have seen from the DAS during the clock On cycle were:
>
> EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED ON
> EXTERNAL CLOCK WAKEUP
> EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
> EXTERNAL CLOCK IS LOCKED
> (approximately 20 minutes of phase error messages)
> EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
> EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED OFF
>
> The time between the power turn on and the DAS first polling the clock
> for its status, and getting the first unlocked message, is about 5
> seconds. Now the clock usually (but not 100% of the time) locks
> within that five seconds, so you don't get the first unlocked message.
> This produces a pattern in the logpeek trace of the clock lock/unlock
> cycle that is different from what people are used to seeing. However,
> I have confirmed with Reftek that there is no problem there. If the
> clock is shielded somewhat, so that it takes longer to lock, then you
> will get the old familiar pattern of messages and sawtooth (rather
> than zigzag) trace in logpeek.
>
> I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact me if there are
> questions, or we can be of any assistance.
>
> - Brit
>
> --
> Brit O'Neill
>
> Hardware Maintenance
> PASSCAL Instrument Center
> 100 East Rd.
> Socorro, NM 87801
>
> Tel: 575-835-5080
> Fax: 575-835-5079
>
>
> On 7/15/11 9:18 AM, Bruce Beaudoin wrote:
>> I'm just sending this to managers at this point. Please review and if
>> this is indeed a problem for us (and I'm suspecting that it is) then
>> can Brit or MikeF be prepared to discuss at Monday morning meeting.
>>
>> Thanks, Bruce
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin
>> GPS receiver (details from Reftek)
>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:04:11 -0600
>> From: Kent Anderson <kent at iris.edu>
>> To: James Gridley <James.Gridley at iris.edu>, Bruce Beaudoin
>> <bruce at passcal.nmt.edu>
>> CC: Bob Woodward <woodward at iris.edu>, Robert Busby <busby at iris.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> Not sure if you were aware of this, but looks like there is a problem
>> with the Garmin GPS (model 16x). I believe these are the units we
>> bought to overcome the problems with the previous SiRF problems in 08.
>>
>> Just wanted to make sure you were in the loop on this. I'm sure you
>> guys are all over this already.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> *From: *"David S. Croker" <croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>>
>>> *Date: *July 14, 2011 3:52:33 PM MDT
>>> *To: *anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>> <mailto:anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
>>> *Subject: **[ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin GPS
>>> receiver (details from Reftek)*
>>>
>>> All, below is an exchange we had after trying to work out a timing
>>> error with a couple of Jim Cullen's sites. Sorry for the bad news....
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>> Below are the details about a Reftek timing bug, as related by Ian
>>>> Billings at Reftek.
>>>>
>>>> Refteks running with Model 16X GPS may or may not have a 1 second
>>>> timing error. Once they DO have the timing error, it will remain 1
>>>> second wrong until the GPS firmware is updated. So even if we
>>>> figure out which stations have the bad GPS module, we might not
>>>> know if/when the timestamp went bad...
>>>>
>>>> The only way to tell if you have a Model 16X is to look at the
>>>> hockey puck.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: bug in "Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)? [USGS]
>>>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:49:25 -0500
>>>>> From: "Ian Billings" <I.Billings at reftek.com
>>>>> <mailto:I.Billings at reftek.com>>
>>>>> To: "Lynn Dietz" <dietz at usgs.gov <mailto:dietz at usgs.gov>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Lynn,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes there is a problem with Garmin modules 16X, their Garmin
>>>>> firmware between 2.50 & 3.70. Garmin have recently fixed this and
>>>>> we have tested it and ok'd it. The fixed version is 3.70.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortuantely REF TEK did not track 130-GPS serial number to
>>>>> Garmin model number, therefore one will need to look at the bottom
>>>>> of the unit to know if it is a 16X. This was a major error on REF
>>>>> TEK's part as there is no way now for support to contact users
>>>>> that maybe effected.
>>>>>
>>>>> The error is an exact 1sec difference. Once a clock gets into the
>>>>> state of being in error it will not come out of it until the
>>>>> firmware is replaced. However it can take units months to get to
>>>>> this point which makes it difficult to determine if current units
>>>>> installed are in error yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 3.70 firmware is available on the Garmin web site. I have
>>>>> also attached a diagram of the cable we use to upgrade the units.
>>>>> You will see that a serial port is needed. I will be in your area
>>>>> on the 28th of this month so we could discuss this more then and I
>>>>> could also upgrade any units you have on hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know if you have ant additional questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian Billings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Lynn Dietz [ mailto:dietz at usgs.gov ]
>>>>> *Sent:* Thu 7/14/2011 1:58 PM
>>>>> *To:* Ian Billings
>>>>> *Cc:* oppen at usgs.gov <mailto:oppen at usgs.gov>; dietz at usgs.gov
>>>>> <mailto:dietz at usgs.gov>; croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>
>>>>> *Subject:* bug in "Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Cullen of PG&E just told me that Reftek has confirmed that
>>>>> there's a bug in the "Model 16X" GPS unit (black hockey puck from
>>>>> Garmin). Can you give me any details about the timing errors that
>>>>> result from this bug?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have observed a timing difference of approximately 1 sec between
>>>>> co-located Reftek130 and analog data from the PG&E network, but Jim
>>>>> says he's observed differences of 0.8 sec. So it appears that the
>>>>> timing error is not exactly a whole second.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if NCSN is using any "Model 16X" GPS units, but I know
>>>>> we have some black hockey pucks out there. Is there a way to tell
>>>>> from SOH logs if a Reftek130 is using a buggy Garmin?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Lynn Dietz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>> USGS - Earthquake Science Center - NCSN Field Operations Manager
>>> David S. Croker office (650)
>>> 329-4697
>>> 345 Middlefield Rd, MS 977 fax (650) 329-4732
>>> Menlo Park, CA 94025 cell (650) 465-4334
>>> email: croker at usgs.gov <mailto:croker at usgs.gov>
>>> Quake info: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/
>>> USGS URL: http://www.usgs.gov/
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Managers mailing list
>> Managers at passcal.nmt.edu
>> https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers
>>
>
> --
> Brit O'Neill
>
> PASSCAL Instrument Center
> 100 East Rd.
> Socorro, NM 87801
>
> Tel: 575-835-5080
> Fax: 575-835-5079
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Managers mailing list
> Managers at passcal.nmt.edu
> https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers
>
--
Brit O'Neill
PASSCAL Instrument Center
100 East Rd.
Socorro, NM 87801
Tel: 575-835-5080
Fax: 575-835-5079
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