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<font face="Arial">Hello -<br>
<br>
Kent Anderson suggested I forward this thread to this forum. <br>
<br>
</font><br>
-------- Original Message --------
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [Managers] Fwd: Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek
"Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:17:39 -0600</td>
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<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Bridget O'Neill <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brit@passcal.nmt.edu"><brit@passcal.nmt.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Bruce Beaudoin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bruce@passcal.nmt.edu"><bruce@passcal.nmt.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td>Robert Busby <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:busby@iris.edu"><busby@iris.edu></a>, Kent Anderson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kent@iris.edu"><kent@iris.edu></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:croker@usgs.gov">croker@usgs.gov</a>, James Gridley
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:James.Gridley@iris.edu"><James.Gridley@iris.edu></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:managers@passcal.nmt.edu">managers@passcal.nmt.edu</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:woodward@iris.edu">woodward@iris.edu</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dietz@usgs.gov">dietz@usgs.gov</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Arial">One other thing I should have added -<br>
<br>
In the SOH log messages, if the initial EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED
message is missing all the time and you are NOT using a 16x GPS with
3.7 firmware - that is an indication that the DAS power to the clock is
stuck ON. I believe it is U2 on the RT130 Lid board that needs to be
replaced to fix that. We have a check for this issue in our routine
bench testing of RT130's when they return from the field. For some
idea of the frequency of this issue - we've made about 15 of these
repairs so far this year. <br>
<br>
- Brit <br>
</font><br>
On 7/15/11 11:00 AM, Bridget O'Neill wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E20723F.2000308@passcal.nmt.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Arial">Hi, Everyone -<br>
<br>
I just brought this up at last weeks PASSCAL manager coordination
meeting. There was a problem with the 16x receivers that we noted in
January after updating the firmware on the few that we had at that
time. The DAS logs had numerous possible 1 second discrepancies, i.e:
<br>
<br>
INTERNAL CLOCK POSSIBLE DISCREPANCY OF -1 SECONDS<br>
<br>
We did not let any of our 16x, or 15x go to the field with this
firmware. (We are using 15x receivers from Garmin to repair our older
style Reftek GPS, but they did have this same issue.) <br>
We contacted Reftek. Initially they didn't see the problem in
16x's that they had on hand. We sent them several of our GPSs and DASs
and then they did confirm the problem. I think they then confirmed the
problem in new 16x's they had, presumably after putting the _then_
latest Garmin firmware on them. They contacted Garmin, and Garmin has
recently released new firmware, version 3.7, with this issue fixed. We
have not seen any further occurrence of this problem in our testing at
PASSCAL. <br>
It is also my understanding, from Reftek, from their conversations
with Garmin, that this bug was introduced after the 2.7 firmware. If
your 16x has the 2.7 firmware it is supposedly ok. Reftek said that
they were shipping 16x's with 2.7 firmware between the discovery of the
issue and Garmin's release of the 3.7 firmware.<br>
If you look on the back of your hockey puck style GPS, you can see
whether it is a 16-HVS or a 16x-HVS. We have not seen any problems
with the non-x 16-HVS.<br>
There is something else to be aware of with the 3.7 firmware
though. The clock locks very fast. Normally, the log messages you
would have seen from the DAS during the clock On cycle were:<br>
<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED ON<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK WAKEUP<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK IS LOCKED<br>
(approximately 20 minutes of phase error messages)<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK IS UNLOCKED<br>
EXTERNAL CLOCK POWER IS TURNED OFF<br>
<br>
The time between the power turn on and the DAS first polling the clock
for its status, and getting the first unlocked message, is about 5
seconds. Now the clock usually (but not 100% of the time) locks within
that five seconds, so you don't get the first unlocked message. This
produces a pattern in the logpeek trace of the clock lock/unlock cycle
that is different from what people are used to seeing. However, I have
confirmed with Reftek that there is no problem there. If the clock is
shielded somewhat, so that it takes longer to lock, then you will get
the old familiar pattern of messages and sawtooth (rather than zigzag)
trace in logpeek.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact me if there are
questions, or we can be of any assistance. <br>
<br>
- Brit<br>
<br>
</font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Brit O'Neill
Hardware Maintenance
PASSCAL Instrument Center
100 East Rd.
Socorro, NM 87801
Tel: 575-835-5080
Fax: 575-835-5079</pre>
<br>
<br>
On 7/15/11 9:18 AM, Bruce Beaudoin wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E205A37.7080609@passcal.nmt.edu" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
I'm just sending this to managers at this point. Please review and if
this is indeed a problem for us (and I'm suspecting that it is) then
can Brit or MikeF be prepared to discuss at Monday morning meeting.<br>
<br>
Thanks, Bruce<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
<td>Fwd: [ANSS-netops] Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin
GPS receiver (details from Reftek)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:04:11 -0600</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Kent Anderson <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kent@iris.edu"><kent@iris.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>James Gridley <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:James.Gridley@iris.edu"><James.Gridley@iris.edu></a>,
Bruce
Beaudoin
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bruce@passcal.nmt.edu"><bruce@passcal.nmt.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td>Bob Woodward <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:woodward@iris.edu"><woodward@iris.edu></a>,
Robert
Busby
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:busby@iris.edu"><busby@iris.edu></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
Hi Guys,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not sure if you were aware of this, but looks like there is a
problem with the Garmin GPS (model 16x). I believe these are the units
we bought to overcome the problems with the previous SiRF problems in
08.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just wanted to make sure you were in the loop on this. I'm
sure
you guys are all over this already.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kent</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:
</b></span><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium;">"David S. Croker"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:croker@usgs.gov">croker@usgs.gov</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium;">July 14, 2011
3:52:33 PM MDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>To:
</b></span><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span
style="font-family: 'Helvetica'; font-size: medium;"><b>[ANSS-netops]
Fwd: bug in Reftek "Model 16X" Garmin GPS receiver (details from Reftek)</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div> All, below is an exchange we had after trying to work out a
timing error with a couple of Jim Cullen's sites. Sorry for the bad
news....<br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">Below are the
details
about a Reftek timing bug, as related by Ian Billings at Reftek.<br>
<br>
Refteks running with Model 16X GPS may or may not have a 1 second
timing error. Once they DO have the timing error, it will remain 1
second wrong until the GPS firmware is updated. So even if we figure
out which stations have the bad GPS module, we might not know if/when
the timestamp went bad...<br>
<br>
The only way to tell if you have a Model 16X is to look at the hockey
puck.<br>
<br>
Lynn<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">Subject: RE: bug
in
"Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)? [USGS]<br>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:49:25 -0500<br>
From: "Ian Billings" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:I.Billings@reftek.com">I.Billings@reftek.com</a>><br>
To: "Lynn Dietz" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dietz@usgs.gov">dietz@usgs.gov</a>><br>
<br>
<font size="2">Hi Lynn,<br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">Yes there is a problem with Garmin modules
16X,
their Garmin firmware between 2.50 & 3.70. Garmin have recently
fixed this and we have tested it and ok'd it. The fixed version is
3.70. <br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">Unfortuantely REF TEK did not track 130-GPS
serial number to Garmin model number, therefore one will need to look
at the bottom of the unit to know if it is a 16X. This was a major
error on REF TEK's part as there is no way now for support to contact
users that maybe effected.<br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">The error is an exact 1sec difference. Once a
clock gets into the state of being in error it will not come out of it
until the firmware is replaced. However it can take units months to
get to this point which makes it difficult to determine if current
units installed are in error yet.<br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">The 3.70 firmware is available on the Garmin
web
site. I have also attached a diagram of the cable we use to upgrade
the units. You will see that a serial port is needed. I will be in
your area on the 28th of this month so we could discuss this more then
and I could also upgrade any units you have on hand.<br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">Let me know if you have ant additional
questions.<br>
</font> <br>
<font size="2">Ian Billings.<br>
</font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<hr> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Lynn Dietz [ <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dietz@usgs.gov" eudora="autourl">mailto:dietz@usgs.gov</a>
]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu 7/14/2011 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ian Billings<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oppen@usgs.gov">oppen@usgs.gov</a>; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dietz@usgs.gov">dietz@usgs.gov</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:croker@usgs.gov">croker@usgs.gov</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> bug in "Model 16X" GPS receiver (Garmin)?<br>
</font><br>
<font size="2">Hi Ian,<br>
<br>
Jim Cullen of PG&E just told me that Reftek has confirmed that<br>
there's a bug in the "Model 16X" GPS unit (black hockey puck from<br>
Garmin). Can you give me any details about the timing errors that<br>
result from this bug?<br>
<br>
I have observed a timing difference of approximately 1 sec between<br>
co-located Reftek130 and analog data from the PG&E network, but Jim<br>
says he's observed differences of 0.8 sec. So it appears that the<br>
timing error is not exactly a whole second.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure if NCSN is using any "Model 16X" GPS units, but I know<br>
we have some black hockey pucks out there. Is there a way to tell<br>
from SOH logs if a Reftek130 is using a buggy Garmin?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Lynn Dietz<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep>
<p>__________________________________________________________<br>
USGS - Earthquake Science Center - NCSN Field Operations Manager<br>
David S. Croker office (650)
329-4697<br>
345 Middlefield Rd, MS 977 fax (650) 329-4732<br>
Menlo Park, CA 94025 cell (650) 465-4334<br>
email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:croker@usgs.gov">croker@usgs.gov</a><br>
Quake info: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://earthquake.usgs.gov/" eudora="autourl">
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/<br>
</a>USGS URL: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.usgs.gov/" eudora="autourl">http://www.usgs.gov/</a> </p>
</x-sigsep></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Managers mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Managers@passcal.nmt.edu">Managers@passcal.nmt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers">https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Brit O'Neill
PASSCAL Instrument Center
100 East Rd.
Socorro, NM 87801
Tel: 575-835-5080
Fax: 575-835-5079</pre>
<pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Managers mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Managers@passcal.nmt.edu">Managers@passcal.nmt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers">https://webmail.passcal.nmt.edu/mailman/listinfo/managers</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Brit O'Neill
PASSCAL Instrument Center
100 East Rd.
Socorro, NM 87801
Tel: 575-835-5080
Fax: 575-835-5079</pre>
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