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A brief summary of our experience with EFOY methanol fuel cells was
that in four separate deployments the system ended up running from
1-6 weeks before shutting down with a blinking fault indicator.<br>
It generally took 1-4 months to return to the site to assess the
issues-back pressure on outlet tube, dehydration of fuel core,
unknown (just pushed button to resume) , etc. <br>
<br>
Regarding the plastic fuel cartridges. We had one develop a small
split at a seam in the plastic-presumably due to cold and/or
shipping. This resulted in a puddle of methanol, which in field
conditions is not easy to distinguish from water puddles. Methanol
has a clear flame and its quite hard to see if the puddle is
alight. So there is a threat of of burning yourself or worse, the
plastic tank melting, leaking, whoosh... <br>
<br>
Roy Stehle of SRI has successfully run one for 3 winters on the
north slope, powering a VSAT. Which is very impressive.<br>
<br>
For us, the prospect of routinely visiting to fill up methanol, was
less economical than larger batteries that can recharge without a
visit.<br>
We also have very high cost to visit. The economics are much more
favorable if the site is a few hours drive that you can schedule in
the coming week or so.<br>
And you have data coming in telling you what its doing. So it
certain circumstances they might work well. <br>
We'll probably try ours again in Southeast AK where its dim solar
always and there are people around.<br>
<br>
Integrated packages for methanol fuel cells and propane fuel cells
available at:<br>
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<div style="text-align: left; color: #000000;" align="left">855-747-4874</div>
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<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/7/2015 2:20 PM, John R Evans
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5D8265ED-2DC1-4FCD-AC04-D49FE0068310@usgs.gov"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hi All,<br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Agreed —
excellent discussion.</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
We (Dave Croker and I) will know more soon, but I certainly
agree that more panel and battery and better controllers are a
preferable solution in nearly all locations.<br>
<br>
There are a few sites where cost (versus a load of 28
batteries via helicopter) or always-dark conditions (bottom of
redwood-lined V-canyon in the PNW) might still argue for a few
fuel cell in spite of the initial cost. Fuel is just
methanol.</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Suspect
thermoelectric has too much fire potential for many locations
(used them in Idaho in the way-back-when and they scared the
heck out of me so near dry pines).</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Anyone have
specific experience with reliability of the SFC cells? Bob?</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">They are
mil-spec for the German military (likely though, but even
costlier), so might be better for those rare candidate sites
if we know nothing else; might be worth one test anyway.
Their contact info changed, by the way:</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SFC Energy
AG<br>
Christian Böhm<br>
VP Defense and Security Business<br>
Eugen-Saenger-Ring 7<br>
85649 Brunnthal/München<br>
Germany<br>
+49 (89) 673.592.364<br>
+49 (160) 90.52.74.72<span class="Apple-tab-span"
style="white-space:pre"> </span><Cell<br>
+49 (89) 673.592.169<span class="Apple-tab-span"
style="white-space:pre"> </span><FAX<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Christian.Boehm@sfc.com">Christian.Boehm@sfc.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sfc.com">www.sfc.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.efoy-pro.com/page/efoy-proenergybox">www.efoy-pro.com/page/efoy-proenergybox</a><br>
<br>
Björn Ledergerber<span class="Apple-tab-span"
style="white-space:pre"> </span>(U.S. Rep.)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Bjoern.Ledergerber@sfc.com">Bjoern.Ledergerber@sfc.com</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dave and I
will let you know more when we know it, including at least
rough costs and fuel-use rates and costs. We will assume up
to 0.6 W at 12 V (500 mA) if no one objects.</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>
Cheers,<br>
John<br>
<br>
John R. Evans<br>
<br>
-------------------------<br>
<br>
831-460-7593 direct<br>
408-209-6219 mobile<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jrevans@usgs.gov">jrevans@usgs.gov</a><br>
<br>
-------------------------<br>
<br>
Normally at (mail or shipping):<br>
U.S. Geological Survey<br>
400 Natural Bridges Dr<br>
Santa Cruz CA 95060<br>
<br>
-------------------------<br>
<br>
Intermittently at:<br>
<br>
Mail ONLY<br>
USGS/ASL<br>
P.O. Box 82010<br>
Albuquerque NM 87198-2010<br>
<br>
Shipping ONLY<br>
USGS/ASL<br>
Target Rd 10002 Isleta SE<br>
Kirtland AFB NM 87117<br>
<br>
-------------------------<br>
<br>
We have found the ground.<br>
<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>--
JPL, Curiosity control room<br>
<br>
-------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 2015-Jan-07, at 10:40 , <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anss-netops-request@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops-request@geohazards.usgs.gov</a>
wrote:</div>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: solar power problems (Philip Crotwell)<br>
2. Re: ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 6 (Greg Steiner)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 12:32:48 -0500<br>
From: Philip Crotwell <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crotwell@seis.sc.edu"><crotwell@seis.sc.edu></a><br>
To: Patrick Bastien <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu"><bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu></a><br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">"anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"</a><br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CAGFrVcWYkYVwpZeZeamvSc_+vL91zN0gW3qoqGZntLXf+kgrWQ@mail.gmail.com"><CAGFrVcWYkYVwpZeZeamvSc_+vL91zN0gW3qoqGZntLXf+kgrWQ@mail.gmail.com></a><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
We use the same batteries. But get the PVX-1040HT if you can
as they<br>
have a (H)andle. Very useful! :)<br>
<br>
Philip<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Bastien<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu"><bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu></a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The Concorde Sun Extender PVX-1040T
has a nominal capacity of 104AH, so<br>
312AH for the northern TA stations and 208AH for the
southern TA stations.<br>
<br>
Beginning late last summer, the LCSN has begun to switch
from older<br>
PWM-style charge controllers to MPPT charge controllers.
Although it is too<br>
soon to say something definite, this is seeming to have a
larger effect on<br>
station up-time than just adding more panels or batteries.
Something I am<br>
doing that might be considered non-standard is wiring each
solar panel<br>
individually to its own small MPPT change controller. This
allows each solar<br>
panel to generate the maximum amount of power regardless of
the lighting<br>
condition of the other solar panels. The several MPPT charge
controllers<br>
then feed a common battery bank. I then regulate the voltage
powering the<br>
sensor by using a small low-noise DCDC converter imbedded
inside a cable.<br>
The MPPT benefits might be magnified for the LCSN because of
the location of<br>
many of our solar powered stations are in forests or
forest-adjacent.<br>
<br>
<br>
Patrick Bastien<br>
LDEO-LCSN<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/7/2015 11:06 AM, Meremonte, Mark wrote:<br>
<br>
Bob, May I ask the AH size of AGM batteries for an average
TA station?<br>
Thank you, Mark<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Robert Busby
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:busby@iris.edu"><busby@iris.edu></a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Hi Mitch et al.<br>
This is a good discussion of Power for seismic stations,
thanks.<br>
<br>
In the Transportable Array deployment, all 1717 stations
operate(d) off<br>
solar power for at east two years. The average current
draw for a station<br>
is 0.5Amps on a 12V system, but can vary from 0.4 to 0.6A
depending on the<br>
telemetry system. High current telemetry systems such as
VSAT are powered<br>
separately. We avoided AC power because of the proximity
of noise due to<br>
pumps, motors, etc.<br>
<br>
In general we use (2) 90W PV panels and (2) AGM Lead Acid
batteries for<br>
stations south of the Kentucky/Tennessee line (row U in TA
station codes)<br>
and (3) 90W PV panels and (3) AGM Lead Acid batteris north
of there. Shady<br>
or snowy sites occasionally got more panels and batteries.
For permanent<br>
stations I'd go with the (3) PV and 3 or 4 batteries. We
prefer good<br>
quality batteries designed for solar applications, such as
the Concorde Sun<br>
Extender PVX-1040T. We use PWM regulators with Low
voltage disconnect at<br>
10.8V. A few more sophisticated options are discussed
below.<br>
<br>
I would concur with the notion that the most effective way
to improve a<br>
marginal station power situation is to add 1 or 2
batteries, and often this<br>
can be done without much infrastructure alteration. And
the next option is<br>
to add a panel. There is little concern about over
driving the charge<br>
controller with too much current from too many panels. In
Alaska, the "more<br>
batteries" approach is taken to extremes in which stations
have 24 batteries<br>
to float through the winter. I would also concur that, to
date, neither wind<br>
nor fuel cells have proved reliable enough to warrant
their use, especially<br>
in permanent stations of the Lower48.<br>
<br>
More complexity described below:<br>
Our system has, in addition to the main battery bank, a
small reserve<br>
battery. When the system switches to the reserve, certain
loads such as the<br>
telemetry radio and local data storage are duty cycled at
four hour<br>
intervals. This reduces the power of the station to about
3W, yet still<br>
provides complete telemetry (though with episodic latency)
and complete<br>
local storage. For us, this reserve power serves to
identify the source of<br>
the outage is clearly power as opposed to a host of other
possibilities. In<br>
the original design this reserve battery was Alkaline
Lattern 30AH batteries<br>
[(3) x 6Volts] (a primary battery, disposed of after use).
More recently,<br>
We have also used 100-300AH rechargeable batteries that
are then connected<br>
to the main batteries using a battery isolator
circuit-which connects the<br>
reserve batteries to the charger only when the main
battery has recharged to<br>
13.2V. We add a 10A current limit to the battery
interconnection. The<br>
reserve power load shedding can be thought of as doubling
the capacity of<br>
the reserve batteries, reducing the cost of overall power
system for this<br>
reserve capability. Without that sophisitication of load
shedding, adding<br>
more batteries is effective but there is a cost in terms
of station uptime.<br>
When a very large, undifferentiated battery bank is
depleted, it will take a<br>
longer time for the batteries to reach the reconnect
voltage. In this time,<br>
the station itself could be operating on the minimal power
produced. We keep<br>
the main battery bank fairly modest so it recovers voltage
quickly, and<br>
defer recharging the reserve pack until there is ample
power-sometimes<br>
weeks, or in Alaska, months later. Its meant to get you
through an<br>
ocasional bad spell. One issue in this reserve battery
switching is the dc<br>
currents can introduce magnetic pulses seen on the
seismometer-particularly<br>
Trilliums within a few meters of the switches.<br>
<br>
If you are plannning a Net-ops meeting in the future, I'd
be happly to<br>
elaborate on the power system for Alaska, which uses a
Genasun MPPT charge<br>
controller and LiFePO4 (Lithium Ion) batteries and the
same duty cycle<br>
loads, reserve battery concepts. These significantly
reduce the weight of a<br>
1440AH system to 420 lbs and do not require derating the
capacity for cold<br>
temperatures. They are very expensive, but not as much as
a helicopter<br>
trip.<br>
<br>
Bob Busby<br>
TA Manager<br>
<br>
On 1/6/2015 7:36 AM, Kyle Persefield wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Mitch,<br>
<br>
My 2 cents worth<br>
<br>
Because of cost, we have found throwing on more solar
panels to be the<br>
cheapest and least maintenance intensive solution. Fuel
cells and<br>
thermoelectric generators are expensive and then there
is the recurring<br>
cost for fuel, getting fuel to the site, then monitoring
of the fuel<br>
supply level to consider, and the added required
maintenance. We have<br>
not<br>
found a solution to use these devices as demand requires
their use. Or<br>
turning them on and off as needed. So long as there is
fuel they are on.<br>
<br>
We have been very disappointed with wind turbines. The
smaller ones,<br>
which are designed for the consumer market, the bearings
always fail.<br>
Expect no more than 2 or3 years out of these "cheap"
units. Then of<br>
course there is the need for wind. No wind for extended
periods is just<br>
as bad as your overcast scenario.<br>
<br>
Kyle<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ANSS-netops
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov">mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov</a>] On<br>
Behalf Of Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)<br>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:12 AM<br>
To: Philip Crotwell<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a snippet from a recent report from a visit to
an example station<br>
with a reftek, three S-13's, and an episensor. Stations
vary of course<br>
and we do use low voltage cutouts at every station
(fancy ones that cut<br>
out the transmitter first, then the DAS and everything
else if the<br>
voltage<br>
continues to get lower).<br>
<br>
"The new battery banks, when installed were at 12.95 and
12.98. The total<br>
station draw is exactly 600ma (checked continuously for
about three<br>
minutes). I did a quick calculation of 4 batteries at
96AH each, 384/.6 =<br>
640/24 =26.6 days. This calculation would assume no
solar charge, but<br>
does<br>
not take into account reduced battery capacity due to
cold temperatures."<br>
<br>
The panels at that particular station were supplying
about 700ma together<br>
on an overcast day and are being replaced with bigger
panels this week.<br>
Of course one solution is more battery and more solar at
every station<br>
along with more frequent refreshing of batteries. But
that gets<br>
expensive<br>
and time consuming so I was fishing to see if anyone is
doing something<br>
creative. (e.g. wind or hamster wheels).<br>
<br>
Mitch<br>
<br>
Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)<br>
University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940<br>
Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Philip Crotwell <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crotwell@seis.sc.edu"><crotwell@seis.sc.edu></a><br>
Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 7:50 AM<br>
To: Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
How did you come up with your 25 day figure? Can you put
some numbers on<br>
power input and output?<br>
<br>
We use two 105 amp-hour batteries per station, where the
load is about<br>
1/2 an amp. That gives me about 17.5 days theoretically,
but my<br>
understanding is that you never want to discharge
batteries anywhere near<br>
their rating as they can be damaged by high discharges.
So maybe worry<br>
less about age and more about installed capacity, ie
double the battery<br>
and replace them half as often.<br>
<br>
We also, because of the cell modems, can monitor the
battery voltage over<br>
time, we have a cron job to ping the cell modem once an
hour and ask it<br>
what the input voltage is. For example here is the last
few days at one<br>
station. You can definitely tell the difference between
sunny days and<br>
rain, and we get a heads up if the power is getting low
and can do<br>
something before the station goes down.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png">http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png</a><br>
<br>
Here is another station that we are becoming worried
about, looks like I<br>
might get to go on a road trip soon!<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png">http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png</a><br>
<br>
Philip<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Mitchell M Withers
(mwithers)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mwithers@memphis.edu"><mwithers@memphis.edu></a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that
normally works<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to
make sure they<br>
don't<br>
get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with
zero solar for<br>
about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary
winter in the<br>
southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two
months or more.<br>
I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited
sunlight to power<br>
stations that don't have AC available?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Mitch<br>
<br>
Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)<br>
University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940<br>
Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
<br>
Robert W. Busby<br>
Transportable Array Manager 508-801-7628<br>
USArray / EarthScope 37 Haynes Avenue<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.earthscope.org/usarray">www.earthscope.org/usarray</a> Falmouth MA USA
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--<br>
*********************************************************<br>
Mark Meremonte Geophysicist<br>
U.S. Bureau of Reclamation: Seismotectonics &
Geophysics Group<br>
Denver Federal Center Work: 303-445-3298 Cell:
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 12:40:18 -0600<br>
From: Greg Steiner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vlf@cablerocket.com"><vlf@cablerocket.com></a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 6<br>
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:54AD7D92.6020804@cablerocket.com"><54AD7D92.6020804@cablerocket.com></a><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252";
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<br>
Patrick, I'm curious as to how you get multiple MPPT
controllers to <br>
charge a single battery bank. Are they inherently designed for
this form <br>
of parallel operation?<br>
Greg Steiner<br>
<br>
On 1/7/2015 11:16 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anss-netops-request@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops-request@geohazards.usgs.gov</a>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: solar power problems (Patrick Bastien)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 12:18:20 -0500<br>
From: Patrick Bastien <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu"><bastienp@ldeo.columbia.edu></a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:54AD6A5C.6080608@ldeo.columbia.edu"><54AD6A5C.6080608@ldeo.columbia.edu></a><br>
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<br>
The Concorde Sun Extender PVX-1040T has a nominal capacity
of 104AH, so<br>
312AH for the northern TA stations and 208AH for the
southern TA stations.<br>
<br>
Beginning late last summer, the LCSN has begun to switch
from older<br>
PWM-style charge controllers to MPPT charge controllers.
Although it is<br>
too soon to say something definite, this is seeming to have
a larger<br>
effect on station up-time than just adding more panels or
batteries.<br>
Something I am doing that might be considered non-standard
is wiring<br>
each solar panel individually to its own small MPPT change
controller.<br>
This allows each solar panel to generate the maximum amount
of power<br>
regardless of the lighting condition of the other solar
panels. The<br>
several MPPT charge controllers then feed a common battery
bank. I then<br>
regulate the voltage powering the sensor by using a small
low-noise DCDC<br>
converter imbedded inside a cable. The MPPT benefits might
be magnified<br>
for the LCSN because of the location of many of our solar
powered<br>
stations are in forests or forest-adjacent.<br>
<br>
<br>
Patrick Bastien<br>
LDEO-LCSN<br>
<br>
On 1/7/2015 11:06 AM, Meremonte, Mark wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Bob, May I ask the AH size of AGM
batteries for an average TA<br>
station? Thank you, Mark<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Robert Busby
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:busby@iris.edu">busby@iris.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:busby@iris.edu"><mailto:busby@iris.edu></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Mitch et al.<br>
This is a good discussion of Power for seismic
stations, thanks.<br>
<br>
In the Transportable Array deployment, all 1717
stations<br>
operate(d) off solar power for at east two years. The
average<br>
current draw for a station is 0.5Amps on a 12V system,
but can<br>
vary from 0.4 to 0.6A depending on the telemetry
system. High<br>
current telemetry systems such as VSAT are powered
separately. We<br>
avoided AC power because of the proximity of noise due
to pumps,<br>
motors, etc.<br>
<br>
In general we use (2) 90W PV panels and (2) AGM Lead
Acid<br>
batteries for stations south of the Kentucky/Tennessee
line (row U<br>
in TA station codes) and (3) 90W PV panels and (3) AGM
Lead Acid<br>
batteris north of there. Shady or snowy sites
occasionally got<br>
more panels and batteries. For permanent stations I'd
go with the<br>
(3) PV and 3 or 4 batteries. We prefer good quality
batteries<br>
designed for solar applications, such as the Concorde
Sun Extender<br>
PVX-1040T. We use PWM regulators with Low voltage
disconnect at<br>
10.8V. A few more sophisticated options are discussed
below.<br>
<br>
I would concur with the notion that the most effective
way to<br>
improve a marginal station power situation is to add 1
or 2<br>
batteries, and often this can be done without much
infrastructure<br>
alteration. And the next option is to add a panel.
There is<br>
little concern about over driving the charge
controller with too<br>
much current from too many panels. In Alaska, the
"more<br>
batteries" approach is taken to extremes in which
stations have 24<br>
batteries to float through the winter. I would also
concur that,<br>
to date, neither wind nor fuel cells have proved
reliable enough<br>
to warrant their use, especially in permanent stations
of the Lower48.<br>
<br>
More complexity described below:<br>
Our system has, in addition to the main battery bank,
a small<br>
reserve battery. When the system switches to the
reserve, certain<br>
loads such as the telemetry radio and local data
storage are duty<br>
cycled at four hour intervals. This reduces the power
of the<br>
station to about 3W, yet still provides complete
telemetry (though<br>
with episodic latency) and complete local storage.
For us, this<br>
reserve power serves to identify the source of the
outage is<br>
clearly power as opposed to a host of other
possibilities. In the<br>
original design this reserve battery was Alkaline
Lattern 30AH<br>
batteries [(3) x 6Volts] (a primary battery, disposed
of after<br>
use). More recently, We have also used 100-300AH
rechargeable<br>
batteries that are then connected to the main
batteries using a<br>
battery isolator circuit-which connects the reserve
batteries to<br>
the charger only when the main battery has recharged
to 13.2V. We<br>
add a 10A current limit to the battery
interconnection. The<br>
reserve power load shedding can be thought of as
doubling the<br>
capacity of the reserve batteries, reducing the cost
of overall<br>
power system for this reserve capability. Without
that<br>
sophisitication of load shedding, adding more
batteries is<br>
effective but there is a cost in terms of station
uptime. When a<br>
very large, undifferentiated battery bank is depleted,
it will<br>
take a longer time for the batteries to reach the
reconnect<br>
voltage. In this time, the station itself could be
operating on<br>
the minimal power produced. We keep the main battery
bank fairly<br>
modest so it recovers voltage quickly, and defer
recharging the<br>
reserve pack until there is ample power-sometimes
weeks, or in<br>
Alaska, months later. Its meant to get you through an
ocasional<br>
bad spell. One issue in this reserve battery
switching is the dc<br>
currents can introduce magnetic pulses seen on the<br>
seismometer-particularly Trilliums within a few meters
of the<br>
switches.<br>
<br>
If you are plannning a Net-ops meeting in the future,
I'd be<br>
happly to elaborate on the power system for Alaska,
which uses a<br>
Genasun MPPT charge controller and LiFePO4 (Lithium
Ion) batteries<br>
and the same duty cycle loads, reserve battery
concepts. These<br>
significantly reduce the weight of a 1440AH system to
420 lbs and<br>
do not require derating the capacity for cold
temperatures. They<br>
are very expensive, but not as much as a helicopter
trip.<br>
<br>
Bob Busby<br>
TA Manager<br>
<br>
On 1/6/2015 7:36 AM, Kyle Persefield wrote:<br>
<br>
Mitch,<br>
<br>
My 2 cents worth<br>
<br>
Because of cost, we have found throwing on more
solar panels<br>
to be the<br>
cheapest and least maintenance intensive solution.
Fuel cells and<br>
thermoelectric generators are expensive and then
there is the<br>
recurring<br>
cost for fuel, getting fuel to the site, then
monitoring of<br>
the fuel<br>
supply level to consider, and the added required
maintenance.<br>
We have not<br>
found a solution to use these devices as demand
requires their<br>
use. Or<br>
turning them on and off as needed. So long as
there is fuel<br>
they are on.<br>
<br>
We have been very disappointed with wind turbines.
The<br>
smaller ones,<br>
which are designed for the consumer market, the
bearings<br>
always fail.<br>
Expect no more than 2 or3 years out of these
"cheap" units.<br>
Then of<br>
course there is the need for wind. No wind for
extended<br>
periods is just<br>
as bad as your overcast scenario.<br>
<br>
Kyle<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ANSS-netops<br>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov">mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov"><mailto:anss-netops-bounces@geohazards.usgs.gov></a>]
On<br>
Behalf Of Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)<br>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:12 AM<br>
To: Philip Crotwell<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a snippet from a recent report from a
visit to an<br>
example station<br>
with a reftek, three S-13's, and an episensor.
Stations vary<br>
of course<br>
and we do use low voltage cutouts at every station
(fancy ones<br>
that cut<br>
out the transmitter first, then the DAS and
everything else if<br>
the voltage<br>
continues to get lower).<br>
<br>
"The new battery banks, when installed were at
12.95 and<br>
12.98. The total<br>
station draw is exactly 600ma (checked
continuously for about<br>
three<br>
minutes). I did a quick calculation of 4 batteries
at 96AH<br>
each, 384/.6 =<br>
640/24 =26.6 days. This calculation would assume
no solar<br>
charge, but does<br>
not take into account reduced battery capacity due
to cold<br>
temperatures."<br>
<br>
The panels at that particular station were
supplying about<br>
700ma together<br>
on an overcast day and are being replaced with
bigger panels<br>
this week.<br>
Of course one solution is more battery and more
solar at every<br>
station<br>
along with more frequent refreshing of batteries.
But that<br>
gets expensive<br>
and time consuming so I was fishing to see if
anyone is doing<br>
something<br>
creative. (e.g. wind or hamster wheels).<br>
<br>
Mitch<br>
<br>
Center for Earthquake Research and Information
(CERI)<br>
University of Memphis Ph:
901-678-4940<br>
Memphis, TN 38152 Fax:
901-678-4734<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Philip Crotwell <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:crotwell@seis.sc.edu">crotwell@seis.sc.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crotwell@seis.sc.edu"><mailto:crotwell@seis.sc.edu></a>><br>
Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 7:50 AM<br>
To: Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><mailto:anss-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems<br>
<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
How did you come up with your 25 day figure? Can
you put some<br>
numbers on<br>
power input and output?<br>
<br>
We use two 105 amp-hour batteries per station,
where the load<br>
is about<br>
1/2 an amp. That gives me about 17.5 days
theoretically, but my<br>
understanding is that you never want to discharge
batteries<br>
anywhere near<br>
their rating as they can be damaged by high
discharges. So<br>
maybe worry<br>
less about age and more about installed capacity,
ie double<br>
the battery<br>
and replace them half as often.<br>
<br>
We also, because of the cell modems, can monitor
the battery<br>
voltage over<br>
time, we have a cron job to ping the cell modem
once an hour<br>
and ask it<br>
what the input voltage is. For example here is the
last few<br>
days at one<br>
station. You can definitely tell the difference
between sunny<br>
days and<br>
rain, and we get a heads up if the power is
getting low and can do<br>
something before the station goes down.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png">http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png</a><br>
<br>
Here is another station that we are becoming
worried about,<br>
looks like I<br>
might get to go on a road trip soon!<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png">http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png</a><br>
<br>
Philip<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Mitchell M Withers
(mwithers)<br>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mwithers@memphis.edu">mwithers@memphis.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mwithers@memphis.edu"><mailto:mwithers@memphis.edu></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Many of our stations run on battery and solar
and that<br>
normally works<br>
<br>
well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle
to make<br>
sure they don't<br>
get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run
with zero<br>
solar for<br>
about 25 days. But this has been an unusually
dreary winter<br>
in the<br>
southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past
two months<br>
or more.<br>
I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited
sunlight to<br>
power<br>
stations that don't have AC available?<br>
<br>
Mitch<br>
<br>
Center for Earthquake Research and Information
(CERI)<br>
University of Memphis Ph:
901-678-4940<br>
Memphis, TN 38152 Fax:
901-678-4734<br>
<br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops">https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
============================================================<br>
<br>
Robert W. Busby<br>
Transportable Array Manager 508-801-7628<br>
USArray / EarthScope 37 Haynes Avenue<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.earthscope.org/usarray">www.earthscope.org/usarray</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.earthscope.org/usarray"><http://www.earthscope.org/usarray></a><br>
Falmouth MA USA 02540-2312<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ANSS-netops mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov"><mailto:ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov></a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops">https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
*********************************************************<br>
Mark Meremonte Geophysicist<br>
U.S. Bureau of Reclamation: Seismotectonics &
Geophysics Group<br>
Denver Federal Center Work: 303-445-3298 Cell:
303-808-3894<br>
POBox 25007, 85-833000Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mmeremonte@usbr.gov">mmeremonte@usbr.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmeremonte@usbr.gov"><mailto:mmeremonte@usbr.gov></a><br>
Denver, CO 80225 Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.usbr.gov">http://www.usbr.gov</a><br>
Ship: U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, DFC, Bldg. 67-10th
Floor, Denver, CO<br>
80225<br>
**********************************************************<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ANSS-netops mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops">https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops</a><br>
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Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
ANSS-netops mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov">ANSS-netops@geohazards.usgs.gov</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops">https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<pre>============================================================
Robert W. Busby
Transportable Array Manager 508-801-7628
USArray / EarthScope 37 Haynes Avenue
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.earthscope.org/usarray">www.earthscope.org/usarray</a> Falmouth MA USA 02540-2312
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