[ANSS-netops] ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
John R Evans
jrevans at usgs.gov
Tue Jan 6 01:00:03 UTC 2015
Hi All,
Only one thought not already discussed. In costly-access sites one could consider a fuel cell to back up batteries and panels. Mostly applies to very remote sites at high latitudes, partly because they are originally for the military, i.e., not cheap.
These are German and run on methanol and air, supposedly with a trick to prevent the exhaust from turning into a giant hailstone and blocking the thing up. US rep:
SFC Energy Inc
Frank Heid
Vice President, Sales and Business Development
7632 Standish Pl
Rockville MD 20855
240-328-6688
540-454-4460 <Cell
240-328-6694 <FAX
frank.heid at sfc.com
www.sfc.com
http://www.efoy-pro.com/page/efoy-proenergybox
Cheers,
John
John R. Evans
-------------------------
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408-209-6219 mobile
jrevans at usgs.gov
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On 2015-Jan-05, at 07:57 , anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov wrote:
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> than "Re: Contents of ANSS-netops digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: solar power problems (Philip Crotwell)
> 2. Re: solar power problems (Mitchell M Withers (mwithers))
> 3. Re: solar power problems (Mitchell M Withers (mwithers))
> 4. Re: ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1 (Greg Steiner)
> 5. Solar power (Jim Smith)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 08:50:42 -0500
> From: Philip Crotwell <crotwell at seis.sc.edu>
> To: "Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)" <mwithers at memphis.edu>
> Cc: "anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov"
> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
> Message-ID:
> <CAGFrVcXgTdsDQCN72BZSccuaDs2AZ40m8mQ_-2FOL_yv-8XJaQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi
>
> How did you come up with your 25 day figure? Can you put some numbers
> on power input and output?
>
> We use two 105 amp-hour batteries per station, where the load is about
> 1/2 an amp. That gives me about 17.5 days theoretically, but my
> understanding is that you never want to discharge batteries anywhere
> near their rating as they can be damaged by high discharges. So maybe
> worry less about age and more about installed capacity, ie double the
> battery and replace them half as often.
>
> We also, because of the cell modems, can monitor the battery voltage
> over time, we have a cron job to ping the cell modem once an hour and
> ask it what the input voltage is. For example here is the last few
> days at one station. You can definitely tell the difference between
> sunny days and rain, and we get a heads up if the power is getting low
> and can do something before the station goes down.
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png
>
> Here is another station that we are becoming worried about, looks like
> I might get to go on a road trip soon!
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png
>
> Philip
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)
> <mwithers at memphis.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that normally works well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to make sure they don't get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with zero solar for about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary winter in the southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two months or more. I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited sunlight to power stations that don't have AC available?
>>
>> Mitch
>>
>> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
>> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
>> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ANSS-netops mailing list
>> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:11:50 +0000
> From: "Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)" <mwithers at memphis.edu>
> To: Philip Crotwell <crotwell at seis.sc.edu>
> Cc: "anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov"
> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
> Message-ID: <1420467097005.73090 at memphis.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Here is a snippet from a recent report from a visit to an example station with a reftek, three S-13's, and an episensor. Stations vary of course and we do use low voltage cutouts at every station (fancy ones that cut out the transmitter first, then the DAS and everything else if the voltage continues to get lower).
>
> "The new battery banks, when installed were at 12.95 and 12.98. The total station draw is exactly 600ma (checked continuously for about three minutes). I did a quick calculation of 4 batteries at 96AH each, 384/.6 = 640/24 =26.6 days. This calculation would assume no solar charge, but does not take into account reduced battery capacity due to cold temperatures."
>
> The panels at that particular station were supplying about 700ma together on an overcast day and are being replaced with bigger panels this week. Of course one solution is more battery and more solar at every station along with more frequent refreshing of batteries. But that gets expensive and time consuming so I was fishing to see if anyone is doing something creative. (e.g. wind or hamster wheels).
>
> Mitch
>
> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Philip Crotwell <crotwell at seis.sc.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 7:50 AM
> To: Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)
> Cc: anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
>
> Hi
>
> How did you come up with your 25 day figure? Can you put some numbers
> on power input and output?
>
> We use two 105 amp-hour batteries per station, where the load is about
> 1/2 an amp. That gives me about 17.5 days theoretically, but my
> understanding is that you never want to discharge batteries anywhere
> near their rating as they can be damaged by high discharges. So maybe
> worry less about age and more about installed capacity, ie double the
> battery and replace them half as often.
>
> We also, because of the cell modems, can monitor the battery voltage
> over time, we have a cron job to ping the cell modem once an hour and
> ask it what the input voltage is. For example here is the last few
> days at one station. You can definitely tell the difference between
> sunny days and rain, and we get a heads up if the power is getting low
> and can do something before the station goes down.
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png
>
> Here is another station that we are becoming worried about, looks like
> I might get to go on a road trip soon!
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png
>
> Philip
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)
> <mwithers at memphis.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that normally works well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to make sure they don't get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with zero solar for about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary winter in the southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two months or more. I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited sunlight to power stations that don't have AC available?
>>
>> Mitch
>>
>> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
>> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
>> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ANSS-netops mailing list
>> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:11:57 +0000
> From: "Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)" <mwithers at memphis.edu>
> To: Philip Crotwell <crotwell at seis.sc.edu>
> Cc: "anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov"
> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
> Message-ID: <1420467115857.81888 at memphis.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Here is a snippet from a recent report from a visit to an example station with a reftek, three S-13's, and an episensor. Stations vary of course and we do use low voltage cutouts at every station (fancy ones that cut out the transmitter first, then the DAS and everything else if the voltage continues to get lower).
>
> "The new battery banks, when installed were at 12.95 and 12.98. The total station draw is exactly 600ma (checked continuously for about three minutes). I did a quick calculation of 4 batteries at 96AH each, 384/.6 = 640/24 =26.6 days. This calculation would assume no solar charge, but does not take into account reduced battery capacity due to cold temperatures."
>
> The panels at that particular station were supplying about 700ma together on an overcast day and are being replaced with bigger panels this week. Of course one solution is more battery and more solar at every station along with more frequent refreshing of batteries. But that gets expensive and time consuming so I was fishing to see if anyone is doing something creative. (e.g. wind or hamster wheels).
>
> Mitch
>
> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Philip Crotwell <crotwell at seis.sc.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2015 7:50 AM
> To: Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)
> Cc: anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
>
> Hi
>
> How did you come up with your 25 day figure? Can you put some numbers
> on power input and output?
>
> We use two 105 amp-hour batteries per station, where the load is about
> 1/2 an amp. That gives me about 17.5 days theoretically, but my
> understanding is that you never want to discharge batteries anywhere
> near their rating as they can be damaged by high discharges. So maybe
> worry less about age and more about installed capacity, ie double the
> battery and replace them half as often.
>
> We also, because of the cell modems, can monitor the battery voltage
> over time, we have a cron job to ping the cell modem once an hour and
> ask it what the input voltage is. For example here is the last few
> days at one station. You can definitely tell the difference between
> sunny days and rain, and we get a heads up if the power is getting low
> and can do something before the station goes down.
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/HAW_last720.png
>
> Here is another station that we are becoming worried about, looks like
> I might get to go on a road trip soon!
> http://eeyore.seis.sc.edu/earthworm/status/CASEE_last720.png
>
> Philip
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)
> <mwithers at memphis.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that normally works well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to make sure they don't get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with zero solar for about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary winter in the southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two months or more. I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited sunlight to power stations that don't have AC available?
>>
>> Mitch
>>
>> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
>> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
>> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ANSS-netops mailing list
>> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 08:49:33 -0600
> From: Greg Steiner <vlf at cablerocket.com>
> To: <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: Re: [ANSS-netops] ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1
> Message-ID: <54AAA47D.7010704 at cablerocket.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed
>
> Climatic events like you are currently experiencing in the midwest occur
> every 10 years or so.You are experiencing the so called perfect storm.
> the last big ones occurred during strong el-nino years.It doesn't help
> that these cloudy periods coincide with cold weather that already has
> reduced the capacity of the batteries.
>
> The only sure cure least expensive way is to increase the capacity of
> the battery plant to account for it. Even in cloudy weather, solar
> panels put out some power. Increasing the available panel size to at
> least carry the load during the day would help, but it is a diminishing
> return for the added cost.
>
> Burying the batteries deeper to keep them warmer would increase their
> capacity, but to be effective they would need to be well below the frost
> line, and that in itself would prove problematical when venting and
> replacement are considered, especially in light of the high water table.
>
> Small wind generators could help a lot, but in the soft sediments of the
> embayment you would pay a big price for it in increased seismic
> background noise that they cause.
>
> Natural gas fired thermoelectric generators are a possibility for
> critical stations, but they can get expensive, 1-2K$. They are the go to
> source in the Canadian networks. Their broadband stations are deeply
> buried and deep snow, limited winter daylight time and cold were the
> obstacles to be overcome.
>
> The only other non power line solutions are primary batteries such as
> lithium or air cells that could be switched in electronically when needed.
>
> Greg Steiner
>
> On 1/5/2015 6:00 AM, anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov wrote:
>> Send ANSS-netops mailing list submissions to
>> anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> anss-netops-owner at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of ANSS-netops digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. solar power problems (Mitchell M Withers (mwithers))
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 14:07:45 +0000
>> From: "Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)" <mwithers at memphis.edu>
>> To: "anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov"
>> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
>> Subject: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
>> Message-ID: <1420380464747.41875 at memphis.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that normally works well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to make sure they don't get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with zero solar for about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary winter in the southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two months or more. I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited sunlight to power stations that don't have AC available?
>>
>> Mitch
>>
>> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
>> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
>> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ANSS-netops mailing list
>> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1
>> ******************************************
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 07:57:02 -0800
> From: Jim Smith <jimsmith at usgs.gov>
> To: "<anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>"
> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: [ANSS-netops] Solar power
> Message-ID: <3347F52D-148B-4B07-98FF-C3AF7F318311 at usgs.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mitch,
>
> In the past for a temporary issue like this one we have simply kept extra batteries charged and changed them out at predetermined intervals (30,60 days etc.). However, this was only for a couple of sites and not a lot like what you may be dealing with.
>
> R/Jim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 5, 2015, at 4:00 AM, <anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov> <anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Send ANSS-netops mailing list submissions to
>> anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> anss-netops-request at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> anss-netops-owner at geohazards.usgs.gov
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of ANSS-netops digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. solar power problems (Mitchell M Withers (mwithers))
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 14:07:45 +0000
>> From: "Mitchell M Withers (mwithers)" <mwithers at memphis.edu>
>> To: "anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov"
>> <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
>> Subject: [ANSS-netops] solar power problems
>> Message-ID: <1420380464747.41875 at memphis.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> Many of our stations run on battery and solar and that normally works well. We have a routine battery replacement cycle to make sure they don't get old. Theoretically, we should be able to run with zero solar for about 25 days. But this has been an unusually dreary winter in the southeast and we haven't had much sun for the past two months or more. I'm wondering what others do in areas with limited sunlight to power stations that don't have AC available?
>>
>> Mitch
>>
>> Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI)
>> University of Memphis Ph: 901-678-4940
>> Memphis, TN 38152 Fax: 901-678-4734
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ANSS-netops mailing list
>> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
>> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 1
>> ******************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> ANSS-netops mailing list
> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ANSS-netops Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
> ******************************************
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