[ANSS-netops] Fwd: FW: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec hours later [USGS]
Kent Anderson
kent at iris.edu
Wed Aug 6 16:29:45 GMT 2008
Hi All,
I passed this concern on to our IRIS/PASSCAL group and they (Marcos
Alvarez) had some additional comments and suggestions regarding this
problem.
cheers,
Kent
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Mark Alvarez <marcos at iris.edu>
> Date: August 4, 2008 1:37:33 PM MDT
> To: Kent Anderson <kent at iris.edu>
> Cc: Jim Fowler <jim at iris.edu>, Rhett Butler <rhett at iris.edu>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: [ANSS-netops] FW: strange Reftek130 timing jumps
> -1 sec, then + 1 sec hours later [USGS]
> Reply-To: marcos at iris.edu
>
> Hi Kent,
> Thanks for forwarding this information. We are painfully aware
> of the Sirf GPS problems which has led us to replace them with the
> Garmins. We've encountered additional problems with the internal
> antennas on the older Garmins which cause the units to fail
> completely under dry high static conditions. Recently we have
> been purchasing the R130 GPS's directly from Garmin (model 16xHVS
> "Hockey puck" ~$80). We have to put on the connector and program
> the units to work with the R130's but that's not too hard.
>
>
> Marcos
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "David Oppenheimer" <oppen at usgs.gov>
> Date: August 4, 2008 11:24:44 AM MDT
> To: <anss-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov>
> Subject: [ANSS-netops] FW: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec,
> then + 1 sec hours later [USGS]
> Reply-To: oppen at usgs.gov
>
> If you operate Reftek 130’s, please read from the bottom up.
> Because this problem will take months to address, our solution is
> to continue waveform acquisition but not to time arrivals. This
> will allow us to use the data for ShakeMaps etc should a big quake
> occur.
>
>
>
> -David
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> David Oppenheimer office:650.329.4792
> U.S. Geological Survey fax: 650.329.4732
> 345 Middlefield Road.-MS 977 email: oppen at usgs.gov
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
>
> From: Ian Billings [mailto:I.Billings at reftek.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:09 AM
> To: oppen at usgs.gov; Customer Support
> Cc: NCSS
> Subject: RE: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec
> hours later [USGS]
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> You will be able to do the upgrade yourselves as it will be a
> simple replacement of the 130-GPS/01 unit for the 130-GPS new
> Garmin unit.
>
>
>
> I will have sales send you a quote today.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Ian billings.
>
> Customer Service Manager
>
> Refraction Technology Inc
>
> 1600 10th Street Plano TX 75074 USA
>
> Ph 214 440-1265 or 214 440-1289 (direct)
>
> www.reftek.com ftp.reftek.com
>
> “Want to become an expert with REF TEK equipment? Attend our REF
> TEK University. Follow the link on our web site www.reftek.com”
>
> From: David Oppenheimer [mailto:oppen at usgs.gov]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:06 PM
> To: Ian Billings; Customer Support
> Cc: 'NCSS'
> Subject: RE: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec
> hours later [USGS]
>
>
>
> Hi Ian,
>
>
>
> I’ll ok for the purchase of the clock replacements without input
> from Lynn and others since they are out on vacation this week.
>
>
>
> Can we do the upgrade or must we return all the instruments to
> Reftek? If the latter, will there be additional charges?
>
>
>
> The amount of this purchase exceeds our credit card limit, so I’ll
> have to do a purchase order. Can you send me an official quote?
>
>
>
> -David
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> David Oppenheimer office:650.329.4792
> U.S. Geological Survey fax: 650.329.4732
> 345 Middlefield Road.-MS 977 email: oppen at usgs.gov
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
>
> From: Ian Billings [mailto:I.Billings at reftek.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:16 AM
> To: Lynn Dietz; Customer Support
> Cc: oppen at usgs.gov; croker at usgs.gov; kohler at usgs.gov; macbeth at usgs.gov
> Subject: RE: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec
> hours later [USGS]
>
>
>
> Lynn,
>
>
>
> The GPS clocks, SiRF, are the problem here. The 130 will try to
> keep correcting for the time jumps but can only go off what the
> clock is telling it.
>
>
>
> The only real solution here is to replace all the SiRF clocks, 36,
> with Garmin clocks. It has been 2yrs since we were told by SiRF
> that there will be no upgrade to the firmware to solve the problems
> you are seeing therefore the only thing we can do is offer the
> Garmin GPS at our cost of $170 each.
>
>
>
> Please let me know what you decide or if you need to discuss this
> timing problem further.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ian Billings.
>
>
>
> From: Lynn Dietz [mailto:dietz at usgs.gov]
> Sent: Fri 8/1/2008 5:16 PM
> To: Ian Billings; Customer Support
> Cc: oppen at usgs.gov; croker at usgs.gov; kohler at usgs.gov; macbeth at usgs.gov
> Subject: RE: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec
> hours later [USGS]
>
> After getting RTPD to write to its archive again, I compiled a
> spreadsheet (attached) lising all of our Reftek130 stations,
> their firmware, GPS clock type and whether they shifted
> time -1s on 2008/07/31.
>
> Note that we have 56 Refteks deployed:
> 36 are using SiRF GPS and they all shifted by -1 s
> 17 are using Garmin GPS and none had a time shift
> 3 are offline or have no GPS signal
>
> After the initial -1 s shift, most units shifted back +1 sec on
> 7/31 1900ish UTC (a few did not), then -1 s on 8/1 0100ish UTC.
> It's now 8/1 2200 UTC, and there has not been a +1s shift back,
> so it appears that all of our SiRF Refteks are running 1 second off.
> Earthquake arrival residuals for a unit at Geysers seem to confirm
> this (-1 s for GDXB). I haven't checked residuals for other stations.
>
> I am leaving for vacation tomorrow and I'm not sure if anyone else
> will be able to follow this while I'm gone.
>
> Lynn Dietz
>
>
> At 01:05 PM 8/1/2008, Lynn Dietz wrote:
> >I found the SOH from a datalogger (NC.NLH, DAS 9581) that did the
> >timeshift both 7/31 and 8/1. The SOH from 7/31 is attached.
> >
> >20080731_UTC_01:10:04 reftek2ew(9): Error: Starttime of tracebuf
> >earlier than last timestamp: (NLH HNZ NC --) 1217466588.710 -
> >1217466597.620, 892, 100.0, lp 1217466589.700 (9581 S0 C0)
> >20080801_UTC_01:05:00 reftek2ew(9): Error: Starttime of tracebuf
> >earlier than last timestamp: (NLH HNZ NC --) 1217552685.430 -
> >1217552694.340, 892, 100.0, lp 1217552686.420 (9581 S0 C0)
> >
> >Lynn
> >
> >
> >At 12:20 PM 8/1/2008, Ian Billings wrote:
> >>Thanks Lynn,
> >>
> >>Yes we would be very interested in any SOH files you may have in the
> >>future. My guess is the stations behaving like this have the SiRF
> >>Trimble type, 130-GPS/01, which has suffered in the past with second
> >>jumps due to its firmware. There is no fix to this firmware
> >>unfortunately.
> >>
> >>SOH information shows "GPS TYPE NEMA" for a SiRF type module and
> "GPS
> >>TYPE NEMA Garmin" for the Garmin type which has regular firmware
> >>updates, currently at 4.30
> >>
> >>Later 130 code 2.8.8 checks for time discrepancies and corrects
> them if
> >>they are constant for more than 3hrs.
> >>
> >>SOH files will definitely help us with this problem.
> >>
> >>Ian.
> >>Customer Service Manager
> >>Refraction Technology Inc
> >>1600 10th Street Plano TX 75074 USA
> >>Ph 214 440-1265 or 214 440-1289 (direct)
> >>www.reftek.com ftp.reftek.com
> >>"Want to become an expert with REF TEK equipment? Attend our REF
> TEK
> >>University. Follow the link on our web site www.reftek.com"
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Lynn Dietz [mailto:dietz at usgs.gov]
> >>Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:50 PM
> >>To: Customer Support
> >>Cc: oppen at usgs.gov
> >>Subject: strange Reftek130 timing jumps -1 sec, then + 1 sec
> hours later
> >>
> >>For the last 2 days, I've noticed some strange coincidental timing
> >>shifts on a large number of our Reftek130s. We have many Reftek
> >>acquisition systems; I've checked two of them and about 15 of 26
> >>units have displayed this behavior. I expect that many more DASes
> >>on the other acquisition systems are behaving the same way.
> >>
> >>On 2008/07/30 everything is normal.
> >>Starting near 2008/07/31 0100 UTC, many units shifted time by -1
> sec.
> >>Then around 2008/07/31 1900 UTC, they shifted time back +1 sec.
> >>Again around 2008/08/01 0100 UTC, they shifted -1 sec again.
> >>It's almost 1900 UTC, we'll see if they shift back.
> >>
> >>The timeshifts were noted in my reftek2ew and Earthworm gaplist
> >>logs. I've attached a file containing semi-sorted log info for
> >>one channel of each misbehaving Reftek130 datalogger.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately, RTPD had stopped writing to its archive, so I don't
> >>have SOH for any of the units. The dataloggers don't appear to have
> >>a backup of SOH either (only trigger files). I just restarted the
> >>archive, so if the jumps happen again, I'll be able to send you SOH.
> >>
> >>I don't know if it's related, but the GPS almanac was updated on
> >>2008/07/28 1600ish UTC to include information about the up-coming
> >>leap second, and we are seeing -1 sec time issues on some other
> >>vendor's dataloggers since that time.
> >>
> >>Lynn Dietz
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________________
> >>Lynn Dietz email: dietz at usgs.gov
> >>U.S. Geological Survey phone: 650-329-5520
> >>345 Middlefield Rd - MS 977 fax: 650-329-4732
> >>Menlo Park, CA 94025
>

> _______________________________________________
> ANSS-netops mailing list
> ANSS-netops at geohazards.usgs.gov
> https://geohazards.usgs.gov/mailman/listinfo/anss-netops
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://geohazards.usgs.gov/pipermail/anss-netops/attachments/20080806/be0d031d/attachment-0002.html
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: NC.reftek.timeshift.xls
Type: application/vnd.ms-excel
Size: 18944 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://geohazards.usgs.gov/pipermail/anss-netops/attachments/20080806/be0d031d/attachment-0001.xls
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://geohazards.usgs.gov/pipermail/anss-netops/attachments/20080806/be0d031d/attachment-0003.html
More information about the ANSS-netops
mailing list